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PANEL
1
Gaming and Virtual Learning
Environments
Presenters: Andrew
Phelps from Rochester Institute of Technology and Daphne Economou from
Manchester Metropolitan University, UK
Margaret
Corbit - Introduction to the Session
queenbee: We apparently are out of synch with the real clock but for the
sake of continuity, please use your VRT clock for moving from session
to session.
Daphne: HI this is Daphne
queenbee: And you will find the start time for each session in the
Program Schedule
roberto cuccu: hi, I'm back
vr: does that mean we are already late?
queenbee: I am now going to introduce the leader of our first panel
on Gaming and Virtual Learning Environments, Andy Phelps
queenbee: Andy is a professor at the Rochester Institute of Technology's
IT Lab and has driven down t o Ithaca for the afternoon to join us at
our node.
queenbee: Take it away, Andy
andy phelps: OK, first off I'd like to welcome everyone and thank everyone
for coming, and Margaret for hosting this little area at Cornell
Vetunimi1: *cough
andy phelps: Next, I'd like to sort of set the "format" for the panel
Daphne
Economou- Building design guidelines for the use of
virtual actors in CVE's for learning
andy phelps: Daphne
Economou is here to speak with us today about her research on the intersection
of games and education, which looks to be very exciting
andy phelps: I can honestly say the screenshot is very intriguing.
queenbee: yo binks
queenbee: I am at Margarets comp
queenbee: yes?
Daphne: Hi, first of all I want to thanks Bonnie and Margaret for inviting
our group to present at this event. I also want to thank all of you being
here at this time of the day :-)
andy phelps: I think what I'd like to do is allow her this chance to
speak first, and then allow the rest of the time for a more informal question
/ chat session. I have a number of opinions I want to get out there, but
after she starts.
andy phelps: Thanks you daphne.
Daphne: Could you please wave to let me know that I have your attention?
:-)
Vetunimi1: *flaps wings
Daphne: Thanks :-)
Daphne: Let me introduce myself.
Daphne: I am Daphne Economou originally from Greece, but I choose to work
at Manchester Metropolitan University, UK the last few years!
Daphne: I'll try to present you part of my Ph.D. work under the supervision
of Billy Mitchell, represented with a cool actor somewhere around.
EduArt1: hallo eduart2
Daphne: The work aims on building design guidelines for the use of
virtual actors (VAs) in CVEs for learning, that addresses issues of pedagogy,
interaction and communication.
Daphne: The talk focuses on the methodology we followed. It involves the
development of prototype learning environments in a series of distinct
phases of increasing sophistication.
"Videonaut": thank u
EduArt1: we are at 2s 10
"vguest": hi all
EduArt1: whoop wrong but we are at 2s 10e
Daphne: The human body is a key element for communication, interaction
and collaboration in real life, We consider VAs equally important in CVEs.
andy phelps: Anyone who cant find us, add me to your contacts list and
"join" me.
Daphne: We faced 4 main problems in our research :-(
Daphne: 1. Technology development driven by technological challenges rather
than user and application needs.
Brainstorm: :-)
Daphne: 2. Immaturity and prototypical nature of the current CVE technology.
Daphne: 3. Vast amount of design factors involved in the development of
VEs and CVEs that are difficult to be isolated and studied.
Brainstorm: Whats is CVE ?
Daphne: 4. Lack or rigorous methods for studying and evaluating CVEs.
"Timaeus": CVE?
"Quiddity": What is CVE?
"Videonaut": ;-o)
Vetunimi1: yes what is it?
bea: Collaborative Virtual Environment
andy phelps: Collaborative Virtual Environment, I believe.
Daphne: Collaborative Virtual Learning Environments CVEs
Vetunimi1: ty
Daphne: The followed an exploratory approach to overcome this problems.
It is based on observations rather than formal evaluations.
Daphne: To determine the requirements for the use of VAs in CVEs for learning
we study a real world situation. Manchester Museum's Education Service
(caters with children K-2) is used as a case study.
"Quiddity": What's a VA?
Daphne: We are building prototype CVE environments based on the Museum's
collection of ancient Egyptian artefacts from the pyramid builders' town
of Kahun & particularly a board game for two players called "senet".
Daphne: VA = Virtual Actors Daphne: Do you all follow?
"Quiddity": Yes
irtuta1: yes
andy phelps: yes
"Timaeus": Yes omar: interesting..
Daphne: Good!
Vetunimi1: yup
"egplant": yes
"Graham": yes
scifair22: yes
"Francis": yes
Daphne: The social dimensions of senet reinforce user involvement in
a concrete activity, support sociocultural theories of learning (constructivism,
cognitive apprenticeship, instructional methods) emphasised in the NGfL.
Daphne: Plus, a game is always fun. Daphne: To simplify the study of design
factors an iterative approach of breaking the problem in 3 distinct manageable
phases was adopted. The phases differ in terms:
vr: NGfl?
"Quiddity": What's NGfl?
Daphne: 1. of population that increases incrementally
zg: NGfl =National Grid for Learning
Daphne: National Grid of Lraning (NGfL)
Daphne: Sorry Learning
bea: still is not clear what is means
Daphne: 2. the technology used for building the prototypes (i.e. early
phases use 2D technology to build robust prototypes, that were used to
identify issues to be supported in the last phase, build using 3D CVE
technology)
bea: at least to me :(
EduArt1: Anybody knows that the origin of constructivism was also around
the Bauhaus?
Daphne: I could answer questions later!
Daphne: 3. studying face2face (external to the system) interactions of
users using early phases' prototypes, to explore types of interactivity
& social communication to be supported internally to the 3D VE to be used
in phase3
Daphne: Do you follow so far?
virtuta1: yes
Vetunimi1: no
katy: yes
andy phelps: yes, we'll hold a question awnser session following so please
hold your questions, or whisper them to queenbee who can compile a list
"remi": yes
"Timaeus": yes
scifair22: yeah
Daphne: I'll show you some snapshots of prototypes built throughout
different phases now.
"Videonaut": teleporting into a past epoque ba egyptian clothes is a rather
satirical idea
"Quiddity": ok
virtuta1: national grid for learning needs to be explained more
Daphne: From the web page with the abstract of this talk you will find
a link called "slide show" before the big image in the middle of the page.
Click on it now.
Daphne: Did you manager to do it?
"alpa": no
"guest1": no
"alpa": where is the web page
vr: where is that page?
scifair22: where?
"Quiddity": no I didn't see "slide show"
Daphne: http://www.doc.mmu.ac.uk/STAFF/D.Economou/pubs/V-Learn/V-Learn.htm
"Timaeus": not yes
"Francis": ok, got the first
slide:http://www.doc.mmu.ac.uk/STAFF/D.Economou/pubs/V-Learn/phases1.htm
vr: no image , no link
"Timaeus": not yet
spans1: found the abstract but no image
"alpa": same here
Daphne: Try the URL
"Timaeus": ditto
Daphne: http://www.doc.mmu.ac.uk/STAFF/D.Economou/pubs/V-Learn/V-Learn.htm
Daphne: Any luck?
Vetunimi1: image is there
"alpa": excuse ignorance - where do I put url in
omar: yes
"Quiddity": got it YEAH
andy phelps: at the top of her abstract is a hiperlink, follow that to
a page and halfway down is the slide show link
Daphne: Fine you are great.
Vetunimi: menu-->web-->url
Daphne: You should see slide 1.
"Quiddity": IT CAN BE DONE. I'm there.
"alpa": got it
vr: yar
Daphne: Slide 1 shows the prototype used for phase 1.
Daphne: A single display groupware - built using 2D multimedia technology.
vr: ooh, nice
Daphne: User interactions take place face2face in the real world, external
to the VE.
"Timaeus": ok
Daphne: The users can learn the rules of the game by asking a list of
predefined questions and the actors answer in bubbles.
Daphne: The prototypes have been observed with real users during 3 open
days at the Museum.
"alpa": are we still on slide one?
Daphne: Yes still on slide 1, I'll tell you when to move on.
Daphne: What stood out was mainly:
Daphne: 1.the rich range of interactivity & social communication that
needs to be supported in CVEs for learning
Daphne: 2.the importance of the expert to be aware of and able to control
even such a seemingly well structured activity as game playing
Daphne: Click next to go to slide 2.
Daphne: Are you on slide 2?
"alpa": yes
"Quiddity": yes
"egplant": yes
"remi": yes
Vetunimi1: indeed
virtuta1: yes
Daphne: Fine
Daphne: Slide 2 shows one of the prototypes used in phase 2.
Daphne: 2 users (a child and a researcher playing the role of the teacher)
were remotely located. Interactions between them were internal to the
computer.
Daphne: The tools used for communication were the NetMeeting text box,
a drawing board, a hand tool for pointing things to each other.
"chris": yes, on slide 2
Daphne: The users could see each other via the one and the same actor
scifair22: yes
Vetunimi1: *hint press F7 and view alongside pod view
Daphne: They could learn the rules of the game by asking the teacher
or reading the rules on the wall.
Daphne: Click next to go to slide 3.
Daphne: Am I too fast?
"chris": yes
"Francis": no
vr: no
virtuta1: no
Daphne: Slide 3 shows another prototypes used in phase 2. All the users
were represented with VAs, the communication was in bubbles internal to
the CVE & users could learn the rules of the game by asking the teacher.
scifair22: no
"alpa": I am not getting the whole picture - what is the point of the
game?
Daphne: Some of the issues phase 2 highlighted were:
Daphne: the importance of the internalisation of the communication (in
bubbles) & keeping track of earlier utterances (in a kind of a history
box)
Daphne: turn taking being a major problem. The need for turn taking protocols
arose Vetunimi1: yes i can see that :)
Daphne: The design factors identified in the previous 2 phases guided
the design of the phase 3 prototype.
Daphne: I will be finishing soon showing you what happened in phase 3.
Click next to go to slide 4.
virtuta1: wow!
Daphne: Are on slide 4?
"Quiddity": yes
"alpa": yes
"Timaeus": yes
"guest1": yes
Daphne: Slide 4 shows the prototype used in phase 3. The technology
used is the Deva 3D CVE tool developed by the Advanced Interfaces Group
at Manchester University
bea: yes
scifair22: yes
"remi": yes
"ecuddihy": yes
Vetunimi1: ok "Videonaut": yes
Daphne: Ta! We wouldn't managed without you:-)
Daphne: Any technical question about Deva to Steve Pettifer, he is somewhere
around here as well.
Daphne: User studies of this environment allow the design factors identified
previously to be tested
Daphne: The users were represented by their own VA. VA in Deva can walk
- point (with a laser pointer) - select & move objects.
Daphne: Communication was in bubbles above VA's heads. Warning boxes were
appearing at the edges of users displays when they could not see the VAs
speaking.
Vetunimi1: the laser point is active in the VE?
Daphne: A historical text was displayed in a "transcript" window outside
the game environment.
Daphne: Yes, it is
Vetunimi1: nice
Daphne: The rules were displayed on one of the walls of the CVE.
Daphne: Go to slide 5 to get an idea of the experimental settings
Daphne: Phase 3 highlighted the following points:
Daphne: turn taking improved because the VAs provided cues revealing the
users status of activity
Daphne: communication in bubbles was more effective as the users could
follow each others dialogue as well as actions, plus the communicated
dialogue between users increased
Daphne: the monitor next to the teacher displaying the children's field
of view of the CVE enhanced the teacher's awareness about the users focus
of activities
Daphne: the teacher's control over the situation increased although it
was still hard to track individual user actions & the user in charge,
due to the teacher's involvement in other activities or having obscure
view point
Daphne: the same applied for all users
Daphne: it was also hard for the teacher to keep track of history of
events, thus the need for rewinding the virtual time and keeping track
or activities arose once more
"Nsae Comp": I'm the fat one
"chris": how did you account for the relability/accuracy of your subjects?
Daphne: To summarise. The first 2 phases identified issues related
to the application & problems of remote communication. The third phase
studies allowed these factors to be evaluated.
Daphne: The finding are beneficial in terms of HCI as well as shaping
and directing the underlying CVE technology
"Quiddity": what's HCL
Brainstorm: Human Compter Interaction
Daphne: Myself, Billy & Steve are willing to take questions. We will
be around for the next couple of hours. If it gets too dark at this side
of the world we will go to sleep but we will be happy to answer your e-mails
:-)
Brainstorm: u
Daphne: Thanks!!!
Brainstorm: :-)
vr: bravo!
"Francis": great!
DG:
andy phelps: Thank you Daphne for that wonderful introduction to your
work
katy: very interesting!
virtuta1: clap
Vetunimi1: *clap *clap
Derrick: What's steve's name here?
queenbee: cheers and applause!!
Brainstorm: Hurra !
scifair22: clap! clap!
Vetunimi1: lol
"Graham": clap clap
"Timaeus": Excellent work. Nice problem solving. I'd like to have seen
more pairs of participants
Daphne: Thanks, any questions?
vr: can u comment on diffs between this & human codes implementation
EduArt1: clap clap clap
"Quiddity": clapclapclap
spans1: very good
"chris": clap whistle
Brainstorm: What is next in your project ?
"Videonaut": :-)))) "Videonaut": :-)))
Daphne: Writing up my thesis
andy phelps: Before we get to question and awnsers, I'd like to steer
the conversation in a *small* way
Daphne: Then holidays "Videonaut": :-)))
nancylaw: http://www.doc.mmu.ac.uk/
"i am": Hi - I have a question? Why did you chose a board game - it does
not seem that a VE adds anything to teaching this and it would be easier
to do with a real board.
Derrick: What types of movement are possible in the Manchester app? is
a download available?
Vetunimi1: What differences did you find between the RW game and the VE
game?
"Videonaut": clap clap
Daphne: I chose a board game because I am interested in studying the
collaboration, interaction and communication problems when children try
to learn using a VR environment
andy phelps: Just to give you a flavor of the history, RIT is now developing
a brand new program in CVE creation and programming. Building toolsets
for educators and students to creat worlds.
"i am": no that's why you chose VR not why you chose a board game
Daphne: Sorry, the questions are coming so quickly and my display is
so small that I cannot follow, give me some time
Andrew
Phelps leads an open discussion - From Multi-Player Dungeons
to Educational Environments
queenbee: Great
now let's hear from Andy
andy phelps: Thanks queenbee. I wanted to kind of make some announcements
more than speak *directly* on a topic
andy phelps: We've seen a number of issues regarding the neccessary requirements
for a VE to support education, from replayable history to turn-taking
protocols
edu5: bruce damer here, hellp andrew
andy phelps: As RIT, and many other institutions move forward in the
use of these environments for education, it is imperative that the computer
folks... well... understand the edu folks.
Vetunimi1: *gives you some time
andy phelps: So my question to all of you, then, is what do educators
need to make these worlds work?
"akejay": patience
virtuta1: technical support
andy phelps: (waits for onslaught)
"i am": a reason for the project to be a VE
Brainstorm: A better GUI and more open source
"Timaeus": faster connections, and a better understading of learning dynamics
in CVEs.
edu5: does anyone have experience in ashrams call?
andy phelps: Why opensource ?
edu5: the newest massive multiplayer environment?
virtuta1: I think the person who said a *reason* raises an essential point
andy phelps: If you mean Asheron's Call yes
Brainstorm: For the sake of development
"Quiddity": better graphics, ability to embed other tools like streaming
audio and video
Brainstorm: and interconnection to my WBTs
queenbee: WBT?
Question: I liked Daphne's proejct - but why is it superior to having
a board and a teacher in RL?
Brainstorm: Web based Training
scifair22: Choices for ways to design for our own topics.
andy phelps: Cooperation with other tools does seem to be a problem,
as does the effort required to make presentable materials. At RIT we are
trying to research strategies to make CVE's more "authorable" by educators
in other fields...
"Quiddity": The 2D/3D splitscreen ruins the immersion factor
Quiddity: turn it off
"Timaeus": is the idea to build smart agents to replace the individual
who played the teacher in the study?
virtuta1: good question
"Timaeus": Or rather is the the goal?
Daphne: We are not claiming that VR is superior to RL. It was just a good
case study
queenbee: nononono, the plan is not to take people out of the mix, at
least not in CVEs
"Timaeus": But is that the cenifit of this kind of tech. if not, is it
cheaper, more accesable...what?
andy phelps: I would challenge that goal. I think the idea is build
a better tool, such the learning (and DISTANCE learning) can take place
within an eironment that may be better for some subjects
"Timaeus": sorry I meant benifit
MrC: And VR may only offer an acceptable alternative to RL
Vetunimi1: what are the main differences between the VE and RW games?
did you let children play with it?
"i am": I think that what we are trying to say is that for something to
be a good case study of learning in a VE the VE has to add value to the
learning expereince in some way - to teach something that CAN NOT be taught
in RL
Daphne: Not really any difference
Vetunimi1: none?
MrC: or to offer a way for students that don't do well in RL
Derrick: Or to a community that is not accessible in RL
"Timaeus": As just another mode of learning?
"akejay": altogether. vr: access is key for ve
Daphne: I would say it is just another way of communicating
"akejay": I always think of Enders' Game
scifair22: A way to get out of the box, right?
Brainstorm: This is getting too philosophical on the learning methods
"akejay": the whole teacher-student model will change, though...
"Timaeus": Fair enough. More studies like yours are needed. I applaud
your embrace of several different software approaches to sole problems
incrementally.
"Timaeus": I meant solve
scifair22: I think learning theory and and pedagogy may be key.
andy phelps: Does it? One of the hottest things right now in the classroom
is the so-called "Studio Model" that supports hands on contructionism,
one wonders if VE's could be thought of as an extension of that
"Quiddity": tell us more
"Graham": It always is, these projects should always start with learning
threory
virtuta1: "studio model"?
vr: the aw platform is optimized for cpnstruction
omar: I think what's so important is collaboration, and the endless supply
of things you can create and interact with in VR makes it a learning env.
with much potential.
Brainstorm: But constructivism is in my eye a way for a learner to self-model
an environment for his learning efforts
chris corsbie: thanks
andy phelps: The studio model is something that began at RPI and is
rapidly gainind attention across higher ed in the US
Vetunimi1: that used to be called "handicraft" LMAO
"Timaeus": is this similar to collaborative learning?
edu5: very good point brainstorm
"Quiddity": no
"i am": The Round World , a CVE VR learning env. tries to teach kids that
the world is round - and takes advantage of the 3D environment
"i am": i meant CAVE
vr: aloha bruce!
scifair22: Construction of one perspective of reality could be communication
with others or something to evaluate in terms of learning?
edu5: hello folks, bruce damer here, say, for the sake of the audience
here at uc santa cruz (live group) can folks just briefly tell us where
you are , your RL name and institution (if you have one?)
andy phelps: Hi Bruce. Andy Phelps @ Rochester Institute of Tech.
 "Timaeus":
Marc Gagliano, Ohio University graduate student, marcg@frognet.net
queenbee: yes, please go around Margaret Corbit, Cornell Theory Center,
Ithaca, NY
virtuta1: Martin Danahay, U of Texas Arlington
Jeff Young: I'm a reporter based in Washington, DC
omar: Bruce.. Omar Khan, student at Cornell U
"guest1": Liyan Wang, Univsersity of Cincinnati
"Francis": Francis Harvey, University of Kentucky, Geography
"i am": Josephine Anstey SUNY Buffalo
vr: vernon reed- sapient inc
"egplant": Dan Wheeler, Univ of Cincinnnati
scifair22: Diana Ryan, OCLD, Ithaca College,. Ithaca, NY
roberto cuccu: Roberto Cuccu, teacher Liceo Scientifico Asproni, Italy
"remi": remi sussan, france journalist
Henny: Henny van der Meijden, Nijmegen University, the Netherlands, hi
Bruce3
Rolland: Rolland Lee - student, Cornell University
Derrick: derrick.woodham@uc.edu University of Cincinnati
"ecuddihy": Elisabeth Cuddihy, University at Buffalo
Daphne: Daphne Economou, Billy Mitchell Manchester Metropolitan University
"Graham": Graham Parton, Canterbury Christ Church University College,
England "i am": www.evl.uic.edu/roundworld i thnk
Big Al: Alan Summers N.Wales School of Art & Design UK
EduArt1: here martin sjardijn (hi Bruce we where in Paris this summer)
EduArt The Netherlands, Municipal Museum (Mondrian) The Hague and HML
"Videonaut": rüdiger Stiebitz visionator dialogue figures improtheatre
ideas
"chris": Two people : Chris Egert and Omar Qadeer , University at Buffalo
"alpa": alpa shah ,SUNY at Buffalo
spans1: Ashley Holmes, researcher, Uni South Australia
"Marina": marina dukhon, SUNY at Buffalo
katy: Katy Borner, Indiana University (world iUni)
vr: two people- i lke that
chris corsbie: is this to me Mountain, Is that why it is in blue?
edu5: thanks for the roll call guys! Mountain Myst: Yes Chris :)))
Vetunimi1: ah! "i am": where were we andy phelps: primitive? How?
matix: matteo piraino- student- awedu td2000- italy
Derrick: What about panel 2? is it starting now?
"Videonaut": i see it all as an antique greek satire
Daphne: Follow the links from the Virtual Museum site and you will
find about NGfL
"Videonaut": people flying others philosophing about important questions
katy: http://www.evl.uic.edu/roundworld
does not work - no search result either :(
"Timaeus": Thanks Daphne, escellent presentation
andy phelps: Yes thank you Daphne vr: clapa\clapclapclap
virtuta1: applause
"Timaeus": And thank you Andy also chris
corsbie: clap clap
"Marina": clap clap
Henny: Ja, martin, Henny, weet je wel van de conferentie in Parijs
"akejay": whooooo!
"remi": bravo
Daphne: Thanks all for your attention
Hypatia: braVA FROM UCSC
roberto cuccu: thank you
Derrick: Clap, thanks :0) EduArt1: Hoi Henny, leuk he hier
Jeff Young: clap, clap, clap
EduArt1: klap klap klap aplaus uit holland
Click here for transcripts
from PANEL 2- Intercultural Communication in Virtual Worlds
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Daphne
Economou
